Monday, November 13, 2006
Grammar police, arrest this man?
as a bit of backstory, I am in charge of a bunch of volunteer stuff in our department. one of my many BS jobs is organizing the seminar series where zoology grad students give talks to the rest of the department for practice and to increase cohesion. there has been a movement to change the name from "crackerjack seminar series" to something more formal. Given that too much student democracy is a waste of time, I changed it to "Zoological students seminar series" (ZS cubed for short). One of my friends in the department contends that my formation is improper; he believes that we should be "Zoology students seminar series." My rationale is based on two points: "Zoology" is not an adjective and hence cannot modify "students", and that I have used the same construction as the widely accepted "medical students." (No one would call them "medicine students.") He counters with the idea that chemistry, physics, and philosophy grad students would not be called "chemical students", "physical students", or "philosophical students" respectively. This seems valid to me. I believe that I am correct de jure, but I am swayed by the pragmatism of his arguments. When does the fluency of common usage trump proper grammer, and is my grammar even correct? What's a canadian farm boy to do?
# posted by 8yearoldsdude @ 11:09 AM 
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"ZS cubed" has personality, and personality goes a long way.
P.S. This is Terry. Wade Garrett a Roadhouse reference and a pen name I'm using to blog on the UW LS student blog, Legal Badger, for which each of the bloggers has an assumed name.
P.S. This is Terry. Wade Garrett a Roadhouse reference and a pen name I'm using to blog on the UW LS student blog, Legal Badger, for which each of the bloggers has an assumed name.
The issue applies to law student/legal students as well. For what its worth, I agree with you on the grammar, Britt, but then I've never heard the term "Zoological students," only "Zoology students."
Interesting question... I agree with your adversary; it should be the zoology student seminar series. If you're really worried you'll make it "students of zoology seminar series" though SZSS doesn't have the same ring to it as ZSSS.
The problem with using an adjectival form ("philisophical students" is the worst offender) is the potential confusion between when the students are and what they study.
This applies to my own discipline. "Economic student" or "economical student" each may have different connotations to different people, whereas "economics student" is exceedingly clear. Most of the economics students I know are economical, but some are profligate.
Clarity trumps formal grammar every time.
-Patch
The problem with using an adjectival form ("philisophical students" is the worst offender) is the potential confusion between when the students are and what they study.
This applies to my own discipline. "Economic student" or "economical student" each may have different connotations to different people, whereas "economics student" is exceedingly clear. Most of the economics students I know are economical, but some are profligate.
Clarity trumps formal grammar every time.
-Patch
# posted by 
: 8:45 AM
: 8:45 AM
Change it to Zoology/ical Ztudents Zeminar Zeries and you'll capture my approach to Crackerjacks
# posted by : 3:11 PM
: 3:11 PM
I like Kyle's suggestion. You're not saying they're boring, are you?
English's facile accommodation of the adjectival noun is one of the most gorgeous and flexible things about the language, one that I often brag to French people about. We get to say "backseat driver" and "greenhouse effect" and, yes, "economics student," and get all the clarity without any of the awkwardness. Do you say Zoological Department?
For what it's worth, the OED defines medical as "of, relating to, or designating the science or practice of medicine in general, or its practitioners" and zoological as "pertaining or relating to zoology; belonging or devoted to the scientific study of animals." To me the specificity of "to its practitioners" sounds stronger than "belonging or devoted" (which applies as well to labs as to students).
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English's facile accommodation of the adjectival noun is one of the most gorgeous and flexible things about the language, one that I often brag to French people about. We get to say "backseat driver" and "greenhouse effect" and, yes, "economics student," and get all the clarity without any of the awkwardness. Do you say Zoological Department?
For what it's worth, the OED defines medical as "of, relating to, or designating the science or practice of medicine in general, or its practitioners" and zoological as "pertaining or relating to zoology; belonging or devoted to the scientific study of animals." To me the specificity of "to its practitioners" sounds stronger than "belonging or devoted" (which applies as well to labs as to students).
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